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 Can our PE kill hardware?, Miracles and Wonders! ;)
post Sep 18 2009, 04:17 PM
Post #1
MedEvil
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Yesterday was the second time in a year, that a PC was dead after a PE ran on it and executed the shutdown command.
Just like before, the powersupply is dead. No hissing, no poping sounds, no smells - simply dead! confused1.gif
(And those were two different computers!)

That makes a total of 8 dead devices after the use of a PE + shutdown\eject in the last 3,5 years.
None failed to work, before or during PE use, but all were dead on the first start thereafter.

Also may be worth noticing or not, no dead device since i stoped using shutdown command and simply eject the CD and turn the computer off.

Did anyone notice something similar?


cheers.gif


--------------------
NaughtyPE - The Multimedia PE!
Requirements: WinBuilder080, XPSP2/W2k3SP1 source, Pentium CPU, 128MB RAM (256MB to use video players)


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post Sep 18 2009, 04:20 PM
Post #2
was_jaclaz
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We do have a smiley for this:
wodoo.gif

dubbio.gif

jaclaz


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Light Blue Ribbon Campaign for Freedom of Skin

But ... then, why?
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post Sep 18 2009, 04:28 PM
Post #3
psc
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Running 'any PE' should not cause that result.

It think that 'running a PE built from ????? project' maybe can cause this result.

What is '?????' ?
And if you can reproduce the issue with the ????? project, post the log.

Peter


--------------------
Build the house starting with the basement rather than with the roof! But always have in mind how the roof should be made!

There are very rarely problems, in most cases there are issues.

There are never stupid questions, there can be only stupid answers.

It does not make much sence to heal the symptoms of an illness. You must heal the illness!
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post Sep 18 2009, 05:21 PM
Post #4
MedEvil
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The list of PE includes
LiveXp, NaughtyPE, StandartProject and nativePE.

cheers.gif


--------------------
NaughtyPE - The Multimedia PE!
Requirements: WinBuilder080, XPSP2/W2k3SP1 source, Pentium CPU, 128MB RAM (256MB to use video players)
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post Sep 18 2009, 06:01 PM
Post #5
was_jaclaz
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QUOTE (MedEvil @ Sep 18 2009, 07:21 PM) *
The list of PE includes
LiveXp, NaughtyPE, StandartProject and nativePE.

cheers.gif


You were running 4 PE's at the same time and you also managed to shut down them all at the same time? w00t.gif wink.gif

jaclaz


--------------------

Light Blue Ribbon Campaign for Freedom of Skin

But ... then, why?
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post Sep 18 2009, 07:24 PM
Post #6
MedEvil
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Sure, how do you check if your hardware is PE resilliant? poke.gif

cheers.gif


--------------------
NaughtyPE - The Multimedia PE!
Requirements: WinBuilder080, XPSP2/W2k3SP1 source, Pentium CPU, 128MB RAM (256MB to use video players)
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post Sep 18 2009, 08:11 PM
Post #7
Nixie
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QUOTE (MedEvil @ Sep 18 2009, 05:17 PM) *
Yesterday was the second time in a year, that a PC was dead after a PE ran on it and executed the shutdown command.
[....]
Did anyone notice something similar?

cheers.gif



huh.gif hi
the only way to kill a machine is blancking the bios... but i suggest to remove the ram and clean the connectors with
a pen eraser ....I think it's just an unfortunate coincidence.
sad.gif
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post Sep 18 2009, 11:24 PM
Post #8
paraglider
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If a power supply is going to fail then it will fail on power up. In 8 years I have had one power supply fail in my home PC. PC was running ok. I shut it down. Just like you no indication it was bad but would not power up. PE was definitely not involved at the time.
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post Sep 19 2009, 12:18 AM
Post #9
DaemonForce
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Problem: Computer component dies after running an OS it wasn't designed to handle.
Solution: Stop buying cheap crap and build a real computer.

Windows PE cannot kill hardware unless you are using programs that specifically instruct said hardware to behave in an unintended manner. BIOS flashing comes to mind but there's a whole world of USB and SCSI devices that escape me. But why flash the BIOS from WinPE? Flashing the BIOS from anywhere but the BIOS is stupid.

Audio devices/drivers are perhaps the biggest stability issue I've witnessed. I know that plugging in a certain MP3 player will kill my computer upon disconnect. I also know the warning signs so I can save stuff before it has the chance.
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post Sep 19 2009, 08:15 AM
Post #10
was_jaclaz
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Well, while "killing" a BIOS is possible (actually only "zapping" it, you just re-burn the eeprom and it is fixed) and not even difficult, I still have to see anything capable of killing a PSU.
PSU = Power Supply Unit

Last time I checked one, it had no data cables, and the only "signal cable" is the ATX ON/OFF, which of course can at the most turn the PSU ON or OFF.

About the 4 PE's let's use some logic (reductio ad absurdum):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
IF a PE actually can kill a PSU, it is likely that it will do so when running and the last "useful" moment would when you shutdown (and the PSU appears dead at first later boot)
The only way a PE (or any other OS) can "plant" a "timer bomb" and have doing anything while another OS or PE is running, is by "planting" the bomb inside the BIOS, or by modifying normally unaccessible parts of the hard disk, or however putting it in some of the other "static" memory places, that include the CD/DVD ROM (if firmware upgradable).
Now, it is obvious that if anything modifies any of these "storing places", it must do it so in such a way that "normal behaviour" of the system is NOT affected until the bomb is triggered.
Since each of these hardware pieces is "custom" and "not standard", this "payload" NEEDS to be custom crafted for the specific hardware device, or in other words, targeted for the specific make/model.
Such a wondeful piece of stealth mode malicious code would need to be programmed very, very accurately, it cannot be generated "randomly".
The probabilities of such a narrowly targeted and malicious code finding a suitable machine is very, very remote, but here we are talking about something that if present inside one of the named PE projects, has been run by at least several thousands of people on more thousands of different machines, and actual pieces of hardware are produced/sold in millions of pieces, the probability of that at least TWO reports would have been generated is so high that it would be a certainty: we would have another similar report.
So let's assume that we either:
  • need a second similar report to even have a reason to imagine that the problem actually exists
    OR
  • resolve that the connection of the (at the moment only hypothetical) problem with more than one PE is absurd.

Thus we have to assume that no "time bomb" is planted and only 1 out of the 4 PE's, the one that was last booted, may eventually be the culprit.

Now, we miss this information, so we need an inductive method, out of these:
  • LiveXp
  • NaughtyPE
  • StandartProject
  • nativePE

which one stands out for:
  • being developed by the OP and thus being probably run more frequently than others on that machine and probably also in pre-alpha stages
  • including a number of hardware drivers (Audio/Multimedia related) that other builds simply miss

? unsure.gif

Let me think.... dubbio.gif

JFYI, my microwave oven died soon after heating a rather newish kind of of pizza (instead of the usual mushroom and ham, it had additionally BLACK OLIVES on it scared9.gif), my researches brought me to the conclusion that olives, due to their form factor, tend to reflect microwaves at awkward angles, but with common green olives this is not much of a problem, whilst the coulour of black ones alters the actual frequence of the reflected waves, since they are partially absorbed.

cheers.gif

jaclaz


--------------------

Light Blue Ribbon Campaign for Freedom of Skin

But ... then, why?
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