IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Recommended
BootDisk.com

Active Users

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Virtual Disk Boot, PE into a .vmdk?
psc
post Sep 1 2008, 10:24 AM
Post #1


Guru
***

Group: .script developer
Posts: 5,404
Thank(s): 83
Joined: 14-July 06
From: Korschenbroich
Member No.: 3


Germany


A 'Standard' WB project
  • Builds a target directory
  • Creates a bootable ISO fcontaining this directory.
Is there a way to boot a PE in a virtual machine with a virtual boot drive built from outside?:
  • I have an empty formatted .VMDK disk (possible)
  • I mount this disk as e.g. drive K:(possible)
  • I copy the target directory to K: (??? 'I386' 'minint')
  • I do something to make the .VMDK bootable
  • I diskmount drive K: (possible)
  • I do some VBoxManagement work to register, ... start (possible)
Peter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dog
post Sep 1 2008, 12:14 PM
Post #2


Advanced Member
***

Group: Advanced user
Posts: 44
Thank(s): 2
Joined: 18-July 06
Member No.: 34



Sounds like Bart's peinst.cmd (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jaclaz
post Sep 1 2008, 12:55 PM
Post #3


Finder
***

Group: Advanced user
Posts: 3,001
Thank(s): 120
Joined: 14-July 06
Member No.: 2


Italy


QUOTE (psc @ Sep 1 2008, 12:24 PM) *
Is there a way to boot a PE in a virtual machine with a virtual boot drive built from outside?:


Sure, why not, as long as:
1) the VM can manage VMDK files
2) the proper drivers for the VM simulated hardware are included in the build

Which is the actual question? (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

of the list:
  • I have an empty formatted .VMDK disk (possible) - Yes, Qemu-img.exe
  • I mount this disk as e.g. drive K:(possible) - Yes MBRBATCH(modified if needed or other tool for the MBR) + VDK
  • I copy the target directory to K: (??? 'I386' 'minint') - Yes minint if SETUPLDR.BIN not hexedited, anything 4 to 6 characters if hexedited
  • I do something to make the .VMDK bootable (possible) - Yes, standard Windows NT/2K/XP/2003 FORMAT
  • I diskmount drive K: (possible) Yes, VDK
  • I do some VBoxManagement work to register, ... start - (possible) Cannot say

(IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

jaclaz
[/list]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sanbarrow
post Sep 1 2008, 01:36 PM
Post #4


Advanced Member
***

Group: Developer
Posts: 289
Thank(s): 11
Joined: 13-October 06
From: Germany - Sauerland
Member No.: 755



Peter - it gets much easier if you work with a vmdk that is already bootable - just create it once inside a VM and only keep minimal boot-files like ntdetect.com, boot.ini and so on.
Then you can just mount the disk with vdk and copy your minint-dir or ramloading image in place.

Ulli
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lancelot
post Sep 1 2008, 02:50 PM
Post #5


Bug Catcher
***

Group: Advanced user
Posts: 675
Thank(s): 48
Joined: 8-May 08
Member No.: 15,072


Turkey


very good idea,

boodsdi method: .img in iso

for now i can put iso in iso (like bootsdi)

but putting iso in vmdk would be very better for my timpack trials (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
maybe bootsect.exe /nt52 O: /force (O: is mounted .vmdk image)
and putting required files (boot.ini, ntldr, etc) may work.

i am very new to .vmdk, you are the master peter, i support the idea (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psc
post Sep 1 2008, 05:03 PM
Post #6


Guru
***

Group: .script developer
Posts: 5,404
Thank(s): 83
Joined: 14-July 06
From: Korschenbroich
Member No.: 3


Germany


QUOTE (jaclaz @ Sep 1 2008, 02:55 PM) *
Sure, why not, as long as:
1) the VM can manage VMDK files
2) the proper drivers for the VM simulated hardware are included in the build

Which is the actual question? (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

of the list:
  • I have an empty formatted .VMDK disk (possible) - Yes, Qemu-img.exe
  • I mount this disk as e.g. drive K:(possible) - Yes MBRBATCH(modified if needed or other tool for the MBR) + VDK
  • I copy the target directory to K: (??? 'I386' 'minint') - Yes minint if SETUPLDR.BIN not hexedited, anything 4 to 6 characters if hexedited
  • I do something to make the .VMDK bootable (possible) - Yes, standard Windows NT/2K/XP/2003 FORMAT
  • I diskmount drive K: (possible) Yes, VDK
  • I do some VBoxManagement work to register, ... start - (possible) Cannot say

(IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

jaclaz
[/list]

Thanks Jaclaz.
Tha actual question are the items w/o (possible)
The items w/ (possible) I already can perform.
But in item #2: I currently can mount / dismount with vdk. But what's the sence of MBRBATCH?
Maybe this is the the key issue?

Peter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psc
post Sep 1 2008, 05:11 PM
Post #7


Guru
***

Group: .script developer
Posts: 5,404
Thank(s): 83
Joined: 14-July 06
From: Korschenbroich
Member No.: 3


Germany


QUOTE (sanbarrow @ Sep 1 2008, 03:36 PM) *
Peter - it gets much easier if you work with a vmdk that is already bootable - just create it once inside a VM and only keep minimal boot-files like ntdetect.com, boot.ini and so on.
Then you can just mount the disk with vdk and copy your minint-dir or ramloading image in place.

Ulli

Thanks, Ulli.
But your solution would cause that I have to distribute a bootable VMDK file with some M$ files on it. And that is out of legality.

My final solution has to build everything from scratch, only using an Install CD, (maybe the user's system) and some freeware tools.

Peter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jaclaz
post Sep 1 2008, 05:47 PM
Post #8


Finder
***

Group: Advanced user
Posts: 3,001
Thank(s): 120
Joined: 14-July 06
Member No.: 2


Italy


@psc
May I first ask you why you want to use a .vmdk format instead of a RAW image?

Personally I would prepare a normal RAW image and then convert it to .vmdk (or to .vdi).

The problem with VDK is that an image mounted through it, though it is "seen" as \\.\Physicaldriven, it is not seen by Disk Manager, in other words you cannot partition it, i.e. write to it the MBR (at least the partition table and "magic bytes" 55AA are needed - no need to write to it the booting code).

So you need to write a MBR with some other method (like MBRBATCH/MKIMG do) and then mount the image, this time VDK will mount properly the partition(s) even if not yet formatted.

Then you simply run FORMAT on the partition(s) and, if you did not write the whole MBR, use an utility like MBRFIX to write the code, and, if needed the disk signature.

At this point you can copy whatever you need to to the image and unmount it.

This RAW image can be converted with qemu-img.exe from RAW to:
vpc (Virtual PC)
vmdk (VMware)
qcow (Qemu format)
+ a few more

Using Vboxmanage you can use the convertdd directive to convert to .vdi (static) if I am not mistaken.

jaclaz
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psc
post Sep 1 2008, 06:05 PM
Post #9


Guru
***

Group: .script developer
Posts: 5,404
Thank(s): 83
Joined: 14-July 06
From: Korschenbroich
Member No.: 3


Germany


QUOTE (jaclaz @ Sep 1 2008, 06:47 PM) *
@psc
May I first ask you why you want to use a .vmdk format instead of a RAW image?

Personally I would prepare a normal RAW image and then convert it to .vmdk (or to .vdi).

The problem with VDK is that an image mounted through it, though it is "seen" as \\.\Physicaldriven, it is not seen by Disk Manager, in other words you cannot partition it, i.e. write to it the MBR (at least the partition table and "magic bytes" 55AA are needed - no need to write to it the booting code).

So you need to write a MBR with some other method (like MBRBATCH/MKIMG do) and then mount the image, this time VDK will mount properly the partition(s) even if not yet formatted.

Then you simply run FORMAT on the partition(s) and, if you did not write the whole MBR, use an utility like MBRFIX to write the code, and, if needed the disk signature.

At this point you can copy whatever you need to to the image and unmount it.

This RAW image can be converted with qemu-img.exe from RAW to:
vpc (Virtual PC)
vmdk (VMware)
qcow (Qemu format)
+ a few more

Using Vboxmanage you can use the convertdd directive to convert to .vdi (static) if I am not mistaken.

jaclaz

Thanks, Jaclaz, for your expert questions.
  • To make the future easier, let me explain
    • first: (As you know) my knowledge about booting: "It sometimes works"
    • second: The history:
      I'M working on the nativeEx_trackWBInstall project.
      Here you boot into a minimized PE system (no explorer, no network, only cmd):
      You do the setup of a new program, and my program trackWBInstal generates a complete WB script including reg entries, directories to create, files to copy etc.
      In order to be complete the PE is minimized. A full PE will not detect 'changes' wich are already in the system.
  • Now the issue:
    To install apps, the PE of course has to be writable.
    The solutions BootSDI and FBWF demand some licensed files which cannot be distributed with the script.
    And some users do not have access to those files and cannot use BootSDI or FBWF.
    Therefore my idea:
    I already have a .VMDK to transfer the trackWBInstall results to the host.
    Why not use the VMDK as the PE OS?
I'm not fixed in VMDK. If the same result is possible with a raw image, why not?

Peter

BTW: I forgot to say: For nativeEx_trackWBInstall I use VBox and want to use VBox in the future.
It gives me 'all' posiibilities to manage from within a WB script.

This post has been edited by psc: Sep 1 2008, 06:12 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sanbarrow
post Sep 1 2008, 06:05 PM
Post #10


Advanced Member
***

Group: Developer
Posts: 289
Thank(s): 11
Joined: 13-October 06
From: Germany - Sauerland
Member No.: 755



QUOTE
But your solution would cause that I have to distribute a bootable VMDK file with some M$ files on it. And that is out of legality.


Yes - i agree - so what about using a partitioned vmdk instead ? - this would work around the problems Jaclaz mentioned.

Ulli
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
« Next Oldest · Boot Methods · Next Newest »
 

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 12th October 2008 - 08:53 AM

W3C XHTML • © 2008 Boot Land • All rights reserved • W3C CSS