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> Next winbuilder.
sokolofskid
post Oct 10 2007, 10:32 PM
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QUOTE(sanbarrow @ Oct 10 2007, 05:08 PM) *
As far as I know only VMware and Virtual Box allow using a real harddisk inside a Virtual Machine.
In both versions the virtual harddisk can only be created in place - you can not create a VM as sample and expect it to work on the next computer.


hmm...well is there a program that knows what kind of drivers your missing and downloads the RIGHT ones? Not drivergenius. But you say that vmware and virtual box lets you use a real harddrive...ok good but when you install xp on a virtual hardisk does it know what kind of cpu and chipset you have? I have a program on my xp /the one i'd like to make an install for winbuilder/ and it gives all the info on the motherboard and stuff. It's called winaudit. anyway...anything like what i said that would work in a virtual machine /also i tried the winaudit in virtual pc with my xp and it picked up the real motherboard and stuff/
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sanbarrow
post Oct 10 2007, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE
ok good but when you install xp on a virtual hardisk does it know what kind of cpu and chipset you have?


A VM will detect your CPU correctly - but it will not use your chipset and it will not use the correct disk-drivers.
Thats why I said you can only run the filecopy-phase inside a VM.
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sokolofskid
post Oct 10 2007, 10:54 PM
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QUOTE(sanbarrow @ Oct 10 2007, 05:36 PM) *
A VM will detect your CPU correctly - but it will not use your chipset and it will not use the correct disk-drivers.
Thats why I said you can only run the filecopy-phase inside a VM.


Why won't it? (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/frusty.gif)
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Xtremee
post Yesterday, 01:33 PM
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@ sokolofskid ,
QUOTE
Sorry, can't make any parentethes or spell it in that case cause the keyboard i'm using dosen't work right.
Why you don't try On-Screen Keyboard?
If you don't know about it got to
Start-> Run-> type
CODE
%SystemRoot%\system32\osk.exe


QUOTE
hmm...well is there a program that knows what kind of drivers your missing and downloads the RIGHT ones? Not drivergenius. But you say that vmware and virtual box lets you use a real harddrive...ok good but when you install xp on a virtual hardisk does it know what kind of cpu and chipset you have? I have a program on my xp /the one i'd like to make an install for winbuilder/ and it gives all the info on the motherboard and stuff. It's called winaudit. anyway...anything like what i said that would work in a virtual machine /also i tried the winaudit in virtual pc with my xp and it picked up the real motherboard and stuff/
Oh man it is too much as a beginning we can enroll all the suggestions till we make its .script first.

==================================================================
@ sanbarrow,
QUOTE
@ Xtremee

If you need help porting my VMplayer plugin to a .script - let me know.
With my build the moa.exe manages the startup-sequence - if you use a different launcher you have to write a startup-batch.
I guess I can help you with that

Ulli
Sure i will need your help (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)
Well as i said before i'm just download the Vmware and try it also there are a lot of options more than Virtual PC (which is sure suck) and i will need to read the program help to understand it quickly.
I will need you to support me with a good links for all about this process you had make in your .swf. bcoz i really like the sokolofskid idea as it save a lot of time which you can use for doing another useful thing.


Now i think it is the time to start this project and stop may be unneeded talking so i think we must organize ourself and build our needed knowledge for this great project. The first thing we will need is create a group for this project. If anyone wanna to join me he/she welcome just reply and type I'm in group.
I think the first one will be you (sanbarrow) (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Regards,
Xtreme
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DaemonForce
post Yesterday, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE(sanbarrow @ Oct 10 2007, 03:24 PM) *
?

A tool for running a VM on a dead system. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)
QUOTE(sanbarrow @ Oct 10 2007, 03:24 PM) *
I see - so then you do not use a ramloading PE for performance reasons ?

Not so much performance as compatibility. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
I remember when I first started on a PE lab. Two very small groups of only three people each working on this with a disjunct roadmap. The major split was when we had applications that needed registered libraries, registry code and then the worst requirement ever dealt with: available disk space.

Sure you can just load the application on the dead system's disk and run it from there...But then you have to relocate all the associated libraries and re-register them in the process! (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)


This is NOT feasible when the dead system has a SCSI for a system disk and you have no idea where the driver is for it. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/frusty.gif)

On a related level, you have another thing to think about:
software vs. hardware.

Now that one isn't news since we've been fighting it for years...(IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) But this project needs to be a universal candidate that runs on the bare minimum Windows XP requirement(READ: run on any X86 with 64MB+ ram). Certainly it sounds far beyond feasibility when you have systems with only that much memory running Windows NT Embedded, but it also leaves a bounty to consider:

If this can be done(and it can), I would then have posession of a very powerful tool that can be run on any/every computer in the lab with nothing sacrificed. An even greater thing to consider: THese machines are pretty much stripped hardware. No one runs into an old computer with 64MB ram anymore let alone a stick of 16 or 32.

Finally two teams split off when we ran into the free space requirement. The other team went off to use a ramdisk joined to a Windows Server 2003 installation or some test variant. I can't remember which. They got very far but apparently Dell cheapshotted us(again (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) since there was one computer in the lab that only registered 48MB memory. It flat out refused to run WinPE correctly. It wasn't a memory requirement issue made by PE. It was a requirement that made itself known by the size of the ramdisk they were using. They used way too much. When they tried to lessen the usage, they started running into errors like afcnt.sys running out of memory and then the security manager started to bug out...lololololol.

My team started looking into SDI booting while I used a write filter. I can't say I trust the SDI 100% but I know my write filter works just fine. That same 48MB system we ran into was able to utilize my PE without several problems(an out of virtual memory popup). I then proceeded to be an asshat and run the explorer shell without an error. Several times. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This limited amount of memory is also the only time I've ever seen factory with a fourth segment in the startup procedure in the list: Creating paging file. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I'm wondering if removing the paging file creates a performance problem.
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Nuno Brito
post Yesterday, 03:43 PM
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Isn't using paging file considered cheating? (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Our xp based boot disks here can rate at 31Mb with explorer still running - but memory requirements go around 100Mb (to say the least)
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sanbarrow
post Yesterday, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE(sokolofskid @ Oct 10 2007, 10:54 PM) *


That is by design: a VM has to be portable - work on different host hardware.
Thats why it uses a virtual hardware - that is so generic that almost any OS has drivers for it.
The virtual mainboard is an old fashioned Intel-board that can work with Intel and AMD CPUs - with single or dual socket.

The virtual computer always uses a VMware SVGA 2 graphics card and only knows two different sound-cards.
The virtual computer does not know latest fashion hardware like PCI-express slots ....

There is a trick that somehow makes the VM use the original computers BIOS -
SMBIOS.reflectHost = "TRUE"
see http://sanbarrow.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=448

So to sum up: a virtual computer only detects CPU and eventually the BIOS from your original box.

I believe this should make it clear that running a full installation inside a VM does NOT produce an installation that will work booted natively.

As I said before - it may be useful to run the file-copy phase inside a VM - but thats all.
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sanbarrow
post Yesterday, 07:01 PM
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@ daemonforce
QUOTE
I can't say I trust the SDI 100% but I know my write filter works just fine.


Isn't a write filter very limited in size ?
I like to create large ramdisks when I need them - like 1Gb or so - I doubt this can be done with write-filters.

Moa uses ramloading images created with fsz.exe , mounted with vdk.exe to populate them and this works pretty stable. One user reported uptimes of 15 days and more - running VMs all the time - which can be counted as heavy usage ;-)

Also we solved parts of the 'missing disk-space issues' by using a cheatcode "disk" which uses a USB-disk as RAMdisk replacement.
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sokolofskid
post Today, 12:41 AM
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This is still related to this topic as an option...is it possible to have a live cd run off of the installed harddrive without getting errors? I'm just saying this cause everything is about ram anymore and i barly see any pc's with less then 128mb...except for the schools, but anyway i know it dosen't help much but do you think it would get rid of errors with live xp and other live cd's? Also I'm not at home right now and i don't have winbuilder on this pc...yet...but for the unattended thing for an xp install...can someone add react os to it? Like i said...start little by little with the ideas. Please come up with some other suggestions as well for this project.
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