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> Please ALL .script developers read here, Embedding files in .scripts, the NEW thread
jaclaz
post Oct 7 2007, 05:39 PM
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It has come to my attention that some .script developers have embedded in their .scripts non-redistributable files.

As you might know I have always been contrary to this feature of Winbuilder as I foresaw the possibility that someone could use it in the "wrong" way.

And in most cases, even when files are in the Public Domain, Freeware or however re-distributable, the Author is deprived of the small satisfaction of being cited in such a way that the "final" user of the .script may be able to perceive.

So, I had a talk with Nuno, which proposed to put any uploaded .script "on hold" until approved by him or by a selected "board of testers".

I expressed my concern that this procedure may:
1) put an additional load of work or pressure on Nuno or to the "testers"
2) could cause a delay to the actual release of a new .script
3) could be seen by the "good" .script developers, which I believe to be the vast majority, as a form of censorship or unneeded centralized control over their work

So, what I propose is an amendment to Rules as follows:


QUOTE
Amendment #2 to Rules Month Day, 2007 - adding of point 1.a
ADDITIONAL provisions for "warez" in .scripts
It has recently come to the attention of the Admins of the board that some .script developers embedded in their .scripts files which re-distribution is not allowed under the terms of their respective License, files found to infringe the Authors License were removed.
Effective from xx/xx/2007 :
1.a ANY .script uploaded to the Downloads section and/or announced on the board and/or attached to a post must be accompanied (in the download description or in the post) with the following information:
- List of ALL files embedded in the .script
- Reference, for each file or group of files coming from the same package, to the Source where it can be found on the Internet (if any), to the Author and to the License accompanying
the file(s), even if the Author of the .script is also the Author or Copyright Owner of the embedded file(s)
- If the .script has no files embedded, a simple statement like "This .script contains no embedded files of any kind."
1.b ANY .script uploaded to the Downloads section and/or announced on the board and/or attached to a post missing ANY of the above information will be deleted.
1.c Users found to "hide" Copyrighted or however non-redistributable files inside their .scripts will be eventually banned from the board



Nuno approved this latter idea and (reproduced from a PM by permission):


QUOTE (Nuno Brito)
Hmm.. However the only obstacle I see is the additional work load in effectively listing all files when writing the script public post - this act itself can take a while longer that writing the script itself and a standard method should be made available so that the script presentation can have a polished and organized look.

I can add a new tool inside wb to take of this part - a small tool to create a list of all files inside a script, also adding a few customizable fields like the sort of license in wich the app is included, app author, website, etc.

This way any .script developer would only need to open up their script inside wb, and inside the edit script tools would appear a small tab saying "Publish" where all these details were automatically published.

Wouldn't be available for non .script files but at least it would set a standard for the scripts with embedded files.

......

I would like that this could be discussed and implemented over the next wb beta - which is likely the ideal time to add this new feature and polish the rough edges.



Ideas, opinions and suggestions are welcome, as well as the cooperation from everyone to single out and correct or remove .scripts already posted that may be against this amendment to Rules.



jaclaz


P.S.: what I mean is "ideas, opinions and suggestions" related to technical means, procedures or whatever to provide a way to respect Third Party Software Licenses causing the minimum amount of "side effects" or inconveniences to boot-land, to Nuno, to .scripts developers and to end users.

Since my attempts to have this kind of feedback failed miserably on the old thread, that you can still find here:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...c=3124&st=0

where I was personally attacked and insulted for trying to do what I consider my work as Admin here, in what I consider the most plain and transparent manner I can manage, I will not attempt to moderate this one and I will also not take part to it.

When everyone will have said whatever he wants, on topic or off it, Nuno will do whatever he sees fit to do.

Enjoy your freedom from your arrogant, hypocritical and despotic Admin! (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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phox
post Oct 7 2007, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (psc @ Oct 7 2007, 05:00 PM) *
Do you use still the good old *.Link ?


Not at all.

Average size of my application scripts is only 2.5 KB and main statement is:

ShellExecute,Hide,"XCOPY","#$q%FBox_Source%\*.*#$q #$q%TargetDir%\%WorkDir%\GroupFolder\AppFolder#$q /e /y"
in LiveXP and nativeEx projects and

ShellExecute,Hide,"XCOPY","#$q%FBox_Source%\*.*#$q #$q%TargetDir%\%DestDir%#$q /e /y"
in VistaPE project,

where "FBox_Source%" is my ProgramArchive.

There are no embedded files in scripts and it is user's
problem how to obtain legally application files.
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phox
post Oct 7 2007, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (jaclaz)
However, even if it was true, you can disagree and object to my way of Administering this board without insulting me..


I am sorry that you feel insulted by my comment.

It was not my intention, but just to explain
why you, as you have concluded, failed.

Thank you.
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Alexei
post Oct 8 2007, 06:42 AM
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This is continuation of this discussion: http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...=3124&st=90
Also, I started a new topic ( Rules for Administration, Do they exist? ) here http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3248

Regarding "List of ALL files embedded in the .script - Reference, for each file or group of files coming from the same package, to the Source where it can be found on the Internet (if any), to the Author and to the License accompanying"...
I can say that it is pretty poor solution to the problem with 3rd party software:
- it's inconvenient to the script developers
- it creates necessity of additional laborous verification
- it's prone to errors
- it doesn't add any protection against copyright violations
- it destroys friendly image of B-L
- it presents WB as unfriendly and unable to solve real life problems
I strongly believe that any additional requirement to the user (in this case script developer) is degradation of the software.
It may be acceptable only as a temporary workaround.

@phox
"There are no embedded files in scripts and it is user's problem how to obtain legally application files."
I still remember my dissapointment with Bart PE "place files here". It's extremely unfriendly (unsulting?) to the end-users.
Contrary to Bart PE, from the very beginning WB was intended to be user friendly.

BTW, Functional Plugins may be the solution to the problem with 3rd party files (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Plugins are executed at end-user side, under local jurisdiction. If plugin requires end-user to verify legality of its use, hosting of such plugins on B-L can hardly be considered illegal, regardless of what and how they do.
Up to "this plugin can be used only in countries where copyright is not protected by law" (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/roll1.gif)

(IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
Alexei
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phox
post Oct 8 2007, 07:12 AM
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QUOTE (Alexei @ Oct 8 2007, 05:42 AM) *
@phox
"There are no embedded files in scripts and it is user's problem how to obtain legally application files."
I still remember my dissapointment with Bart PE "place files here". It's extremely unfriendly (unsulting?) to the end-users.
Contrary to Bart PE, from the very beginning WB was intended to be user friendly.


I agree with you that "place files here" is unfriendly,
but nice explanation where to find and how to prepare
necessary files is very friendly!

BTW, most users have already most of the files and
force them to download them again as a part of a script
is not very friendly too.
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Alexei
post Oct 8 2007, 07:33 AM
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QUOTE (phox @ Oct 8 2007, 12:12 AM) *
I agree with you that "place files here" is unfriendly,
but nice explanation where to find and how to prepare
necessary files is very friendly!
For just one script it may be OK, but if you are newbie and have 50+ scripts, it's not (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

QUOTE (phox @ Oct 8 2007, 12:12 AM) *
BTW, most users have already most of the files and
force them to download them again as a part of a script
is not very friendly too.
I already proposed EUED technology that eliminates excessive downloads.

(IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
Alexei
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MedEvil
post Oct 9 2007, 08:55 PM
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The move out of VistaPE. May it associated with this topic or not.
Raised one question, what is the mo if a script developer hosts his scripts/projects on his 'own' server?
Can he do whatever he likes or is he still bound by the forum rules?

(IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
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Nuno Brito
post Oct 9 2007, 11:26 PM
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Everyone is free to whatever they like so what changed in the Internet? (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yet, sometimes it would be fun to do whatever crosses in the mind wouldn't it? (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/roll1.gif)

The bitter part is when some actions end up causing damage to others and then your conscience might get in the way (for most people at least).


I always thought we came to share ideas and opinions in a environment of mutual respect and enough good sense - things can be presented in black, white or any other color - and to avoid dogmas we have these discussions to talk about it so that the next steps can be figured..


This is one of those times when our conscience gets in the way - Is it wise to let these apps that we recon to be unlicensed be made available? (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)


The VistaPE server has it's share of responsability - therefore it will likely avoid scripts that give enough reasons for companies to rightfully complain about unauthorized distribution of their software and force to close down the server or impose an heavy indemnization to the person responsable for the site to compensate their losses.

(IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
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Alexei
post Oct 10 2007, 12:34 AM
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In my opinion, the best solution is to provide some support (preferably automated) to the end-user to download necessary files.
It may be WB script, direct link, batch file or (worse case) link + detailed instructions.
It should be 100% safe, if it's accompanied with disclaimer that puts full responsibility on the end-user.
Even better to mention it is provided for educational purposes (it's usual when people publish viruses, etc.)
Nobody cares if end-user gets some freeware in "improper way".
The question is: Is it OK for Boot-Land to host such download measures?
My answer is: No, it's not OK because some "powerful bodies" may be interested in shutting Boot-land down.
The 2nd question is: Is it OK to host such download measures somewhere else?
My answer is: I don't see why not, especially if it's "provided for educational purposes". (IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
However, to make all things smooth we need Nuno to write simple embedding utility (just command line), like
CODE
embed.exe scriptname filenametoembed
This utility may include into the script a special note that this file is not redistributable (as a safeguarding against unintentional upload).
(IMG:http://www.boot-land.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
Alexei
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Galapo
post Oct 10 2007, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (Alexei @ Oct 10 2007, 10:34 AM) *
However, to make all things smooth we need Nuno to write simple embedding utility (just command line), like
CODE
embed.exe scriptname filenametoembed
This utility may include into the script a special note that this file is not redistributable (as a safeguarding against unintentional upload).

No need I don't think as WB already has this internal function. See the encode function: Encode,%ScriptFile%,Folder,"Filenames".

Regards,
Galapo.
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