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> Any plan for WB to make universal mini 2k/xp/2k3/vista
windrv
post Jul 23 2007, 04:34 AM
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Given WB is quite mature now and that WinPE or VistaPE have inherent PE limitations on running, so:

Is there any WB plan to make universal mini 2k/xp/2k3/vista system images, just like that for win9x in the project of 'winimize', instead of their pe derivatives?
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Oleg_II
post Jul 23 2007, 09:01 AM
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I think it is perfectly possible to create folders structure and place needed files inside.

The problem is in creating system regestry on the fly. As far as I know Bart spent a lot of time for creating needed hives for BartPE.

It is much easier to use nLite for one ideal installation and then make something like XP in RAM (MobileOS project).


By the way, is it possible with WB to create HIVE files from INF files (for example converting HIVESFT.INF to SOFTWARE hive)?
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Nuno Brito
post Jul 23 2007, 09:16 AM
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Peter (PSC) went much further than Bart ever did and is the right the person for this "heavy" task.

If you look on nativeEx you'll notice that all these INF files (including shell32.dll) are scanned for retrieving informations and this is probably 2/3 of the registry work done with fully localized text (not just english as default).


Fun you mention this idea because I was also wondering the same thing - PE environments are by nature quite limited - we already know perfectly well how to mimic and add most features so why not remove the need to use the Windows Installation completely.

This would make things ideal for tweaking and customizing - no more strange workarounds - just apply changes on the fly and install directly from anywhere you wish.


Looking on unattended installs - I noticed that things can get complicated because there isn't a real alternative to the default windows installation procedure which takes too long to be completed.


This would make things much faster and give us a perfectly working OS which only contained the features we require.

I'm up for this challenge.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)
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MedEvil
post Jul 23 2007, 10:26 AM
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If all you wanna have is a XP that can be installed very fast on any computer, all you have to do is:
- install XP
- install your apps
- set everything up to your liking
- include driverpacks
- remove all hardware informations from the registry and set the default drivers for things like hdd and VGA.
- burn Image of the partition to DVD
Done.

If it has to really work on every computer, you will need a few versions with different hals, maybe even different kernels. Or fix that manualy before first start.

(IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
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Nuno Brito
post Jul 23 2007, 10:54 AM
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As you mention - I have the impression that we can always use a generic HAL and then implement one that is adequated for this task.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299340
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309283
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?...b;EN-US;q237556


On boot.ini we can specify our generic HAL

http://www.praecelsus.com/Articles/200002.htm
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws3/doc/ws32_disks8.html
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms792430.aspx

Never tried it myself, but sounds very possible to happen.


The interest here is that we could do all these steps in 3~5 minutes just like nativeEx.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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psc
post Jul 23 2007, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE(Oleg_II @ Jul 23 2007, 11:01 AM) *
By the way, is it possible with WB to create HIVE files from INF files (for example converting HIVESFT.INF to SOFTWARE hive)?


Using this control code HoJoPE creates the software hive:
CODE
[HIVESFT.INF]AddReg

HKLM,""@-2

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Command Processor","AutoRun"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Command Processor","CompletionChar"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Command Processor","DefaultColor"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Command Processor","EnableExtensions"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Command Processor","PathCompletionChar"@-1

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion","CurrentBuild"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion","InstallDate"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion","ProductName"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion","RegDone"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion","RegisteredOrganization"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion","RegisteredOwner"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion","SoftwareType"@-1

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontMapper"@-1

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\GRE_Initialize","FIXEDFON.FON"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\GRE_Initialize","FONTS.FON"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\GRE_Initialize","OEMFONT.FON"@-1

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\IniFileMapping"@-1

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Ports"@-1

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows","AppInit_DLLs"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows","DeviceNotSelectedTimeout"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows","GDIProcessHandleQuota"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows","Spooler"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows","swapdisk"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows","TransmissionRetryTimeout"@-1
HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows","USERProcessHandleQuota"@-1

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WOW"@-1

[HIVECLS.INF]AddReg

HKCR,""@-2

[Remove]
HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed Components\{4b218e3e-bc98-4770-93d3-2731b9329278}"


Peter
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MedEvil
post Jul 23 2007, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE(Nuno Brito @ Jul 23 2007, 12:54 PM) *
The interest here is that we could do all these steps in 3~5 minutes just like nativeEx.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You mean the setting of the right Hal and Kernel?
Very possible, if the user knows what is needed, we would just need a simple bat file where he could choose the appropriate ones to copy over.

Do you mean the whole process as described by me?
No way! I usually need about a week after a fresh install, till everything works again exactly the way i want it.

(IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
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Nuno Brito
post Jul 23 2007, 01:52 PM
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I mean the whole process as we already do with most projects - click and create.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

You can add unattended installs of your favourite software apps and we can also define tweaks with our scripts as it has already been done before - not much difference - but we'll be avoiding the windows install completely which gives a huge boost on the overall project build.

NativeEx with registry creation and file copy takes around 1 minute to be complete on my machine - driverpacks uses around 2 minutes so we still have plenty of time left and already done the most of the hard work here.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If you test the new project I've posted, it will copy the whole contents of the CD (or source folder) to a temporary location where it can later be modified (on this case we're slipstreaming all driverpacks inside) and creating the image after testing in qemu. (>1Gb)

This is a very lengthy process as you can imagine (CD is usually 700Mb from retails sources) and this is completed in around 15 minutes. (including the time to create a liveXP project with a good ammount of applications included)

Efficient and unattended builds can become automated, try it.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Oleg_II
post Jul 23 2007, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE(Nuno Brito @ Jul 23 2007, 05:16 PM) *
Peter (PSC) went much further than Bart ever did and is the right the person for this "heavy" task.
(IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

Peter (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)
That is a bit more difficult that I can understand and use in practice right now but at least I can be sure now it is possible too (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif)

MedEvil
Creating an image is a good idea but imaging all different hardware it can be used on - it is not as universal as BartPE or nativeEx.

Nuno Brito
BartPE or nativeEx can run on different computers and use different hals so it can be made for an OS too.

Most time during OS installation is spent on two processes:
1. First of all on copying (and you can save this by preparing folder structure and placing files before creating regestry like in BartPE or nativeEx).

2. The second time consuming process - detecting and installing hardware on real hardware - this one takes time that hardly can be saved and, I think, is the most difficult to reproduce without real installation. This one is should be explored with the most attention in order to create such project.


As for customized installation - something like modular aproach in Linux, you're talking about something like vise versa nLite (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) That will be even more difficult (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/frusty.gif) because it's easier to desassemble then assemble things...
I think it would be easier to take nLite for starters (create needed system configuration - all installation files will be edited by nLite) and then use WB to create a "universal" system from nlited source.

PS I'm mentioning nLite as a temporary tool to make installation smaller and faster. Nlited source is just a smaller source of full XP (main installation files are still the same). So it is not important at the moment will it be nlited or not or how it will be nlited. The main idea - pre-created system (nlited or not) should be able to run on ANY hardware.
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Nuno Brito
post Jul 23 2007, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE(Oleg_II @ Jul 23 2007, 03:42 PM) *
...
Nuno Brito
BartPE or nativeEx can run on different computers and use different hals so it can be made for an OS too.

Most time during OS installation is spent on two processes:
1. First of all on copying (and you can save this by preparing folder structure and placing files before creating regestry like in BartPE or nativeEx).

2. The second time consuming process - detecting and installing hardware on real hardware - this one takes time that hardly can be saved and, I think, is the most difficult to reproduce without real installation. This one is should be explored with the most attention in order to create such project.
As for customized installation - something like modular aproach in Linux, you're talking about something like vise versa nLite (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) That will be even more difficult (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/frusty.gif) because it's easier to desassemble then assemble things...
I think it would be easier to take nLite for starters (create needed system configuration - all installation files will be edited by nLite) and then use WB to create a "universal" system from nlited source.


No need for installation or worry about detecting/installing hardware - we already add driverpacks and PE boot disks boot just fine with minimal hardware support - XP Install CD's are growing outdated with little support to newer mass storage/LAN/WLAN drivers by default so we can also improve this section significantly.

An nlited install will mean that we're using the windows setup install and follows MS rules about this matter, this project goes far away from this concept and winnt32 can be ignored because it won't be needed at all - we just need to copy the files that we need from the source to a new folder and create an hive structure as it is already done with nativeEx - nothing more.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Meaning that we start with a very slim barebone and add up features/drivers as required - it's not a MS install or anything where people can even thing about using nlite or .NET. We only need to use one step to install XP where we need and that's it - or maybe install XP several times to different partitions without rebooting even once without crazy folders on temporary locations or text mode setups.. (IMG:../forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Cleaning up any bloatware and creating efficient work machines again.. (as jaclaz's signature)

Sorry for the confusion explaining things - but it can likely be made as simple as it is already done with other projects.
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