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 Is http://www.tinykrnl.org/ closed?, Anyone has any ideas on what happened?
post Oct 1 2007, 12:00 PM
Post #25
jaclaz
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Italy


I just posted as attachment the copy I have. confused1.gif

OK, smile.gif definitely we are cross-posting.

Some (most) of the downloads from www.archive.org simply miss 1 (one) byte at the end, in other words the downloaded file is one byte shorter than the original.
Since 99,999% of archive files have a few 00 bytes at the end (so called "padding"), you need to add to the file a byte with value 00.

You do not need necessarily a Hex-editor to do so.
Copy and paste the following with Notepad in a new .txt file and rename the file to pad0.cmd:
CODE
@ECHO OFF
if %1.==. GOTO :EOF
if not exist echoo.com (
echo Bj@jzh`0X-`/PPPPPPa(DE(DM(DO(Dh(Ls(Lu(LX(LeZRR]EEEUYRX2Dx=>echoo.com
echo 0DxFP,0Xx.t0P,=XtGsB4o@$?PIyU WwX0GwUY Wv;ovBX2Gv0ExGIuht6>>echoo.com
echo ?@xAyJHmH@=a?}VjuN?_LEkS?`w`s_{OCIvJDGEHtc{OCIKGMgELCI?GGg>>echoo.com
echo EL?s?WL`LRBcx=k_K?AxVD?fCo?Cd?BLDs0>>echoo.com
)
echoo.com $00>tempbin.$$$
copy /b %1 + tempbin.$$$ %1
del echoo.com
del tempbin.$$$
PAUSE

put it in the same directory where you downloaded the file, open a Command Prompt there and simply type:
pad0 filename.ext [ENTER]
or simply drag and drop the archive on the .cmd

jaclaz


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post Oct 1 2007, 12:10 PM
Post #26
Nuno Brito
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Here's the visual SVN you asked for: http://tortoisesvn.net/

Good luck.. smile.gif


--------------------
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post Oct 1 2007, 02:36 PM
Post #27
simulatedreality
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Holy See Vatican City


QUOTE (jaclaz @ Oct 1 2007, 01:00 PM) *
I just posted as attachment the copy I have. confused1.gif

OK, smile.gif definitely we are cross-posting.

Some (most) of the downloads from www.archive.org simply miss 1 (one) byte at the end, in other words the downloaded file is one byte shorter than the original.
Since 99,999% of archive files have a few 00 bytes at the end (so called "padding"), you need to add to the file a byte with value 00.

You do not need necessarily a Hex-editor to do so.
Copy and paste the following with Notepad in a new .txt file and rename the file to pad0.cmd:
CODE
@ECHO OFF
if %1.==. GOTO :EOF
if not exist echoo.com (
echo Bj@jzh`0X-`/PPPPPPa(DE(DM(DO(Dh(Ls(Lu(LX(LeZRR]EEEUYRX2Dx=>echoo.com
echo 0DxFP,0Xx.t0P,=XtGsB4o@$?PIyU WwX0GwUY Wv;ovBX2Gv0ExGIuht6>>echoo.com
echo ?@xAyJHmH@=a?}VjuN?_LEkS?`w`s_{OCIvJDGEHtc{OCIKGMgELCI?GGg>>echoo.com
echo EL?s?WL`LRBcx=k_K?AxVD?fCo?Cd?BLDs0>>echoo.com
)
echoo.com $00>tempbin.$$$
copy /b %1 + tempbin.$$$ %1
del echoo.com
del tempbin.$$$
PAUSE

put it in the same directory where you downloaded the file, open a Command Prompt there and simply type:
pad0 filename.ext [ENTER]
or simply drag and drop the archive on the .cmd

jaclaz


Thanks mate :-)

Yes, we are definetley cross posting but it's all good now...

Ok, I completely understand what you mean now in respect to padding and thankyou for this checksum/padding/byte fixing program/batch file script which I have just tested and confirm to work perfectly...

Out of curiousity, how does this batch file work ?

I understand nearly everything in the batch file (I think) except for these lines between the parantheses:

(
echo Bj@jzh`0X-`/PPPPPPa(DE(DM(DO(Dh(Ls(Lu(LX(LeZRR]EEEUYRX2Dx=>echoo.com
echo 0DxFP,0Xx.t0P,=XtGsB4o@$?PIyU WwX0GwUY Wv;ovBX2Gv0ExGIuht6>>echoo.com
echo ?@xAyJHmH@=a?}VjuN?_LEkS?`w`s_{OCIvJDGEHtc{OCIKGMgELCI?GGg>>echoo.com
echo EL?s?WL`LRBcx=k_K?AxVD?fCo?Cd?BLDs0>>echoo.com
)

What does this mean and how does this work ?

Just very curious...

What other languages/scripts/code do you work with - do you also do low-level stuff (ie Assembler) or just high-level (C, C++) and/or Web (C# etc etc) ?

Anyway, in regards to TinyKRNL I have now installed the WDK (6000/VISTA DRIVER DEV KIT) and have setup the Razzle/Dazzle command-line-based build environment...

I have also downloaded the Tortoise-Shell-Subversion client thanks to Nuno Brito below - both you guys have been very helpful in getting me and TinyKRNL up and running so thanks a lot !!! cheers.gif

Moving back to my other queries:

has anyone here at BootLand built (compiled) the code in this TinyKRNL archive - using the razzle/dazzle environment and WDK ?

or has anyone used (or even seen) the Native Command Line Interface giving one access to the NT layer of the Windows OS - ie before SMSS.EXE as executed and whilst still in the system process ???
-->(as depicted here: http://tinykrnl.org/dev_test.htm - scroll right down to TESTING A COMPONENT)

I have attached a picture to this post (Native Command Line Interface = command prompt at NT layer before "Windows").

Continuing on with the NCLI for a moment -

My understanding is that this prompt is pretty much running at the exact same time and in the exact same fashion that CHKDSK.EXE would run - even the screen coluring is the same as you will see from that image.

CHKDSK.EXE and AUTOFMT.EXE plus a few other programs in the %system32% directory are NATIVE and do not require the Windows sub-system to be loaded - they are only dependent on NT itself and therefore only require NTOSKRNL.EXE as they run as system threads/processes.

This also means that SMSS.EXE has not been executed and, more importantly, it also means that such programs (CHKDSK, AUTOFMT, AUTOCONV etc etc) are built with device driver kits like the WDK - just my changing the sources file to output an EXE and not a SYS driver. This point is stated here (EXEs made via WDK/DDK) as opposed to most other EXEs being built in Visual Studio or another appropriate "high-level" IDE where programs are reliant on the Windows Sub-System (WIN32K.SYS, CSRSS, KERNEL32.DLL) - ie CreateProcess....

Finally, this also means that such a program (NCLI/CHKDSK/AUTOFMT) would have all the benefits and privileges of a device driver - not just being executed in kernel memory space etc - but on the x86 processor such programs are executed in Ring Zero (0) !!!

Is this understanding pretty much correct and consistent with everyone else's understandings ?

Well the reason I ask is because I would to know how one could get such a interface (NCLI as in the picture attached/posted) to boot up as part of a WinPE disk or standard windows installation...

I do not think this NCLI is specific to TinyKRNL whatsoever.

Basically, I see the NCLI as being a COMMAND.COM (and not CMD.EXE/NTVDM/MVDM emulated) dos prompt that is able to talk directly to the kernel and make use of the NATIVE NT API...

This would basically be setting up a true and proper "NT" operating system. When I say "true and proper" I suppose the best way to perceive what I mean would be to consider "WINDOWS" as a program that runs on top of "NT".

Makes sense yes ?

Anyway, to summarize and keep things simple and focused, and considering this is boot-land.net, does anyone know how to get a WinPE or Windows installation to bring up such a prompt from a standard cold bootstrap on a REAL machine (no emulation etc) ?

There would be many many uses to this sort of an environment - for example a cluster could be created using several NT/x86 (or x64) boxes: instead of using something like Compute Cluster Server (Win x64) the footprint could be kept to an absolute minimum by just running a MPIEXEC client/server system on top of this native NT NCLI point.

That is what I intend to do as a matter of fact - for my PhD thesis - create a proper cluster operating system.

Finally, and speaking of x64, would it be possible in anyone's opinion, to use Microsoft Windows' Compute Cluster Server with SP1 instead of the standard 32-bit edition that TinyKRNL asks for to build itself around - would CCS/x64 work instead of the standard 32-bit x86 version ???

Could a WinPE disk be made with CCS/x64 - to run in native x64 mode ???

I am not sure if anyone is familiar with Compute Cluster Server (Win x64) or not (download here - www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/ccs/default.aspx ) but this would be interesting to know - both if TinyKRNL could use it as it's base and wether or not a WinPE disk could be made with these files just like a WinPE ISO can be made from any other XP or Server ISO.

Ok, Ok, too much for one post I know - sorry !!!!!!!!!

Thanks again everyone.

cheers.gif

PS:

In conclusion the main interest here is getting to the NCLI so if anyone can help that would be great - any thoughts on any of the rest would also be good - I have tried googling native API and NCLI but NOTHING.
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post Oct 1 2007, 03:20 PM
Post #28
jaclaz
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Italy


QUOTE (simulatedreality)
Out of curiousity, how does this batch file work ?

I understand nearly everything in the batch file (I think) except for these lines between the parantheses:

(
echo Bj@jzh`0X-`/PPPPPPa(DE(DM(DO(Dh(Ls(Lu(LX(LeZRR]EEEUYRX2Dx=>echoo.com
echo 0DxFP,0Xx.t0P,=XtGsB4o@$?PIyU WwX0GwUY Wv;ovBX2Gv0ExGIuht6>>echoo.com
echo ?@xAyJHmH@=a?}VjuN?_LEkS?`w`s_{OCIvJDGEHtc{OCIKGMgELCI?GGg>>echoo.com
echo EL?s?WL`LRBcx=k_K?AxVD?fCo?Cd?BLDs0>>echoo.com
)

What does this mean and how does this work ?

Just very curious...


That code is a clever assembler program by Herbert Kleebauer, see here for reference, encoded in the batch:
http://www.geocities.com/zoomkat/byte.htm
http://www.infionline.net/~wtnewton/batch/conv2bat.htm
ftp://137.193.64.130/pub/assembler/ube.zip

basically the ECHO comand available in batch language has two drawbacks:
1) It doesn't write "pure binary" values
2) It appends a CR+LF (0D 0A) to each line

The code uses ECHO to create an executable .com file echoo.com that can write binary values (prefixed by the $ symbol) without appending anything.

The code of echoo.com when running simply "skips over" the 0D0A added by ECHO when creating the file.

It's use can even be simplified like this:
QUOTE (simulatedreality)
@ECHO OFF
if %1.==. GOTO :EOF
if not exist echoo.com (
echo Bj@jzh`0X-`/PPPPPPa(DE(DM(DO(Dh(Ls(Lu(LX(LeZRR]EEEUYRX2Dx=>echoo.com
echo 0DxFP,0Xx.t0P,=XtGsB4o@$?PIyU WwX0GwUY Wv;ovBX2Gv0ExGIuht6>>echoo.com
echo ?@xAyJHmH@=a?}VjuN?_LEkS?`w`s_{OCIvJDGEHtc{OCIKGMgELCI?GGg>>echoo.com
echo EL?s?WL`LRBcx=k_K?AxVD?fCo?Cd?BLDs0>>echoo.com
)
echoo.com $00>>%1
del echoo.com


in the version I posted before I used the COPY command to provide for a visual feedback.

QUOTE (simulatedreality)
What other languages/scripts/code do you work with - do you also do low-level stuff (ie Assembler) or just high-level (C, C++) and/or Web (C# etc etc) ?

No, just batch, if I want to shoot my own foot, I want to do it without the need to read a half a dozen of books on C, let alone C++ and C# (which I call C "obtuse") wink.gif:
http://www.kirchwitz.de/~amk/shoot_foot.shtml

roll1.gif

About all the rest of your post, my understanding is that you are more or less correct, though I would call that an "Enhanced Recovery Console".

jaclaz


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post Oct 1 2007, 06:24 PM
Post #29
simulatedreality
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  Joined: 29-September 07
Posts: 13
Thank(s): 0


Holy See Vatican City


QUOTE (jaclaz @ Oct 1 2007, 04:20 PM) *
That code is a clever assembler program by Herbert Kleebauer, see here for reference, encoded in the batch:
http://www.geocities.com/zoomkat/byte.htm
http://www.infionline.net/~wtnewton/batch/conv2bat.htm
ftp://137.193.64.130/pub/assembler/ube.zip

basically the ECHO comand available in batch language has two drawbacks:
1) It doesn't write "pure binary" values
2) It appends a CR+LF (0D 0A) to each line

The code uses ECHO to create an executable .com file echoo.com that can write binary values (prefixed by the $ symbol) without appending anything.

The code of echoo.com when running simply "skips over" the 0D0A added by ECHO when creating the file.

It's use can even be simplified like this:
in the version I posted before I used the COPY command to provide for a visual feedback.
No, just batch, if I want to shoot my own foot, I want to do it without the need to read a half a dozen of books on C, let alone C++ and C# (which I call C "obtuse") wink.gif:
http://www.kirchwitz.de/~amk/shoot_foot.shtml

roll1.gif

About all the rest of your post, my understanding is that you are more or less correct, though I would call that an "Enhanced Recovery Console".

jaclaz


roll1.gif

That is the funniest the thing I have seen all week; it must be pretty funny because my girlfriend is NOT laughing at all and I am laugh.gif

The best one of all is Assembler - and it is entirely true:

" You try to shoot yourself in the foot, only to discover you must first invent the gun, the bullet, the trigger, and your foot."

However I think (with most compilers/build environments/IDEs anyway - especially the Windows Driver Kit), that before you invent the foot you need to firstly invent the body and brain and consciousness - not to mention REALITY !!!

Isn't that how it goes - I think therefore I am ?

Speaking of assembler, yes that batch-file-script is quite clever...

And I get it now too (so obvious in hindsight) -

Essentially the ECHO is printing out the pre-written-ASCII and "compiling" it to a .com file which is then executed.

What I did notice however is that there is no MZ byte at the start of the .COM file - how does this work - does it use NTVDM/MVDM/SoftPC ?

Moving on, and getting back to reality for a minute:

Have you tried to build the TinyKRNL code you have in that 7Z file you posted ?

Do you have the WDK ?

I would REALLY appreciate it if I could talk to someone else who has/is/would work on the project at least to the point where they could help me get up to the NCLI/Extended Recovery Console (which it very well is albeit it also allows full execution of "programs" that use the Native API - hence the "Extended")...

If you wouldn't mind attempting to unzip your tinynightly.7z and setting up the build environment - with the WDK - and compiling/loading the test environment - see website for instructions - I would be very appreciative.

I just want to know what I am doing wrong because as soon as I type MAKE at the first Dazzle prompt it comes up with build errors and this is a pure clean install of WDK and that tinynightly.7z release.........

All I need help with is getting up to the NCLI point - in KQEMU or in REALITY - then I can take off on my own.

Would you mind taking a look at it ?

The WDK can be obtained for free from http://connect.microsoft.com

Anyone else is also welcome to provide there thoughts/assistance and I can be reached at simulatedrealitylimited@gmail.com

cheers.gif

PS: As I said I am opening up Dazzle window using WDK and proper variables/paths/settings - but it does not build properly - I get no compiled files albeit I do get the MININT drive and NTLDR etc on R: under the Virtual Disk/KQEMU - but when I try and boot I get NOTHING...
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post Oct 1 2007, 06:52 PM
Post #30
jaclaz
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Posts: 6,283
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Italy


QUOTE (simulatedreality)
What I did notice however is that there is no MZ byte at the start of the .COM file - how does this work - does it use NTVDM/MVDM/SoftPC ?


MZ is the signature for .exe, not for .com.

If you have time to experiment:
http://www.programmersheaven.com/download/3105/download.aspx


jaclaz


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post Oct 1 2007, 07:13 PM
Post #31
simulatedreality
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Holy See Vatican City


QUOTE (jaclaz @ Oct 1 2007, 07:52 PM) *
MZ is the signature for .exe, not for .com.

If you have time to experiment:
http://www.programmersheaven.com/download/3105/download.aspx
jaclaz


Ahh - thanks again :-)

Yes, I have the time - quite interesting comment on the website from the last/2nd last person who downlaoded that file - "just what I needed to create my own operating system" - I dare say if that is all that is needed my PhD thesis should complete itself as I sleep what.gif ...

Well I have just downloaded the SP1 for Windows Server 2003 Enterprise (x86) as apparently I must use this for TinyKRNL - using the -x parameter (?) with update.exe and extracting to a directory such as c:\servicepackfiles is the first step: then I tell TinyKRNL where to get these files from once I open the build environment (Dazzle in WDK) by typing "test install c:\servicepackfiles"...

The script file should then build a MININT (WinPE HDD type) installation on R: drive (which is created by the Virtual Disk Service driver included in that little 7Z (Vmware VDS Utility)...

Quite a lot for such a small package actually !!!

Then, once that is done (R: drive created with "test mount") I can type "test current" and cross my fingers as I wait for a KQEMU window to pop-up with this image booting to that NCLI/Command Prompt/Console...

If only it is that simple.

Well, the above has been quite simple and I have had no problems with that...

I can in fact get the KQEMU system to, well sort of, "boot".

The problem I am having is actually with "building" the source: after installing WDK and Dazzle etc I open a new Dazzle window and type make but get compile errors despite EVERYTHING being done properly and the system being clean.

Hmmmm.

Maybe this is out of place but considering you already have TinyKRNL you just need the WDK and Windows Server 2003 and you are ready to run - if you could attempt to build this for me and/or attempt to get to the NCLI I would much appreciate it.

It is just a matter of getting the WDK from connect.microsoft.com - the rest is in the 7Z as I am sure you already know: it will also download anything it needs including SP1 of server 2003 (although I wish it would work with compute cluster x64)...

Anyway - Would you have the time to try this for yourself - to build TinyKRNL and compare results with my build/source ?

cheers.gif
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post Oct 2 2007, 09:57 AM
Post #32
jaclaz
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Posts: 6,283
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Italy


I am afraid that this would be really outside my field of competence (if we can call competence the amount of scattered bits of knowledge I have on Operating Systems wink.gif)

You should post a request for help, maybe here:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/Windows-XP...-Vista-f15.html

it is possible that some other member with the "right" kind of knowledge is willing to partecipate in the project.

Just for the fun of it rolleyes.gif , do you realize that this:
QUOTE
Maybe this is out of place but considering you already have TinyKRNL you just need the WDK and Windows Server 2003 and you are ready to run

equates, in other words, to whistling.gif :
QUOTE
ok, you already have the 4 wheels, all you need is a 300HP engine + transmission and a Camaro body, and you are ready to race


w00t.gif

roll1.gif


jaclaz


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post Oct 4 2007, 01:13 PM
Post #33
simulatedreality
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Posts: 13
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Holy See Vatican City


QUOTE (jaclaz @ Oct 1 2007, 04:20 PM) *
That code is a clever assembler program by Herbert Kleebauer, see here for reference, encoded in the batch:
http://www.geocities.com/zoomkat/byte.htm
http://www.infionline.net/~wtnewton/batch/conv2bat.htm
ftp://137.193.64.130/pub/assembler/ube.zip

basically the ECHO comand available in batch language has two drawbacks:
1) It doesn't write "pure binary" values
2) It appends a CR+LF (0D 0A) to each line

The code uses ECHO to create an executable .com file echoo.com that can write binary values (prefixed by the $ symbol) without appending anything.

The code of echoo.com when running simply "skips over" the 0D0A added by ECHO when creating the file.

It's use can even be simplified like this:
in the version I posted before I used the COPY command to provide for a visual feedback.
No, just batch, if I want to shoot my own foot, I want to do it without the need to read a half a dozen of books on C, let alone C++ and C# (which I call C "obtuse") wink.gif:
http://www.kirchwitz.de/~amk/shoot_foot.shtml

roll1.gif

About all the rest of your post, my understanding is that you are more or less correct, though I would call that an "Enhanced Recovery Console".

jaclaz


Hi again mate - yes this is my most recent post since I built TinyKRNL and, after asking for your assistance, I ended up getting it working within that day - right up to that Native Command Line Interface on a real machine.

But anyway, another BIG problem - one that impacts on my PhD thesis as arisen - and considering the above quote and batch file-machine code technology you have introduced me to - it seems fate has brought me to you after all.

Ok, problem is - I have a large ZIP file that if I do not open in FULL I am DEAD.

And it just seems that the above little padding program is ideal to solve the problem I have.

The file I need to open will allow one to explore (ie using WINRAR etc) to the full tree but it will not decompress to the full tree and at a certain point STOPS and the rest of the tree is left for dead and I only get half of nothing.

So here is the problem and here is what I need done - if you would be so kind as to make me a pad0.cmd type fixing program I would be in great debt to you and would also be willing to make a donation to you for your time if this program works and un-corrupts the file I need to open in full.

Ok - here goes nothing - here is the instruction set my friend compiled to pass onto you for assistance - please help us and we will be forever in your debt I promise:

REMOVED by jaclaz

*** NOTE ***

Both archives (the good copy and the corrupt one described above) have problems
extracting with WinRAR, PKZip and WinZip. They will not process any files
further than ...........

InfoZIP's unzip utility handles them fine though. I used version 5.50 without
any problem. You can get this from http://www.info-zip.org/

Hope this helps,

S
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post Oct 4 2007, 06:31 PM
Post #34
jaclaz
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Posts: 6,283
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Italy


Besides the fact that the file you need to open appears to be of "unauthorized" source, so I am removeing any related info to it.

If the question is "how can I patch some bytes in a file, knowing it's offset, actual value and needed value?"

The answer is simple, use a hex-editor or a patcher program, there are several Freewares of both, just as an example you can use these:
http://www.hhdsoftware.com/Family/hex-editor.html
LGPATCH
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6606/utility.htm

Otherwise, you can easily write your own batch to use dsfi (part of the DSFOK toolkit):
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nulifetv/freezip/freeware/
or of a similar utility.

I don't want to put you down, mind you smile.gif, but maybe before attempting to write your own OS, you should study a bit the basic procedures used on existing ones, changing a handful of bytes in a file should be, if not Chapter #1, Chapter #2 or #3.

And besides, since info-zip is said to be working on that file, why not using it? confused1.gif

jaclaz


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