VistaPE and DriveImage XML? External links Options

[JonF]

Since it's blowing away the partition, I guess it doesn't need locking/shadowing when restoring or does it?

It's beeen a while since I restored, but I think you are correct; it just blows it away.

[JonF]

I've sent that email right after my last reply on this topic - reading on their page I see that mention that will provide no technical support for DIXML.

Let's hope this case can be considered an exception since we're all trying to see this app working ok under VistaPE.

We can hope ... perhaps you can pique their interest.

[Nuno Brito]

Hmm.. received a reply:

Sir:

Our software is not supported under Window PE, only BartPE.

Sincerely,
Jody Wilkes
Runtime Software

Don't think she'll forward our concern about WinPE 2.0 to the development team..

[Lex Luthor]

Hmm.. received a reply:


Don't think she'll forward our concern about WinPE 2.0 to the development team..

You ever hear back from them?

I've been making backups, but I'm somewhat worried that restoring under VistaPE might not work. Has anyone actually ever tried it?

Any other way to restore under Vista that has been tested?

[JonF]

I'm still playing with DriveImage XML under VistaPE. I do not have the VSS running. But I have some more information.

Vista implements "Transactional NTFS", allowing better error recovery. As far as DriveImage XML is concerned this means that Vista keeps the $LogFile file open on all NTFS volumes in the system, and therefore NTFS volumes are never lockable under Vista no matter what the boot media is.

For backing up, without VSS and without locking, DriveImage XML has to hope that no program modifies the disk in any significant manner while it's backing up. This may be a reasonable hope when booted from a VistaPE CD. However, since you can back up a partition with DriveImageXML while booted from your hard disk, I recommend you do that whenever possible rather than using DriveImage XML under VistaPE.

Restoring is the big question mark. Because of Transactional NTFS, you just aren't going to be able to restore to a partition that is formatted as NTFS (unless someone can figure a way to turn TNTFS off, which I doubt). But DriveImage XML can't see anything but formatted partitions, so you can't restore to an unformatted partition. I think that you could format the target partition as FAT32 and then restore an NTFS image, but I haven't yet had the cojones or the time to try this.

It seeems that the best way to use DriveIMage XML is an XP-based boot CD with appropriate drivers or driver packs installed.

[Lex Luthor]

I'm still playing with DriveImage XML under VistaPE. I do not have the VSS running. But I have some more information.

So are you saying, you can backup, no problem, because you are volume locking when backing up inside Vista, but if you try to use VistaPE to restore, it might not restore properly beacuse it's not locking properly because those files aren't included in VistaPE.

Or are you saying something else?

Also, last time I tried a XP based boot CD, probably BartPE, I was unable to see my SATA drive because I guess it didn't have the correct SATA drivers.

Has that situation improved any? Any suggestions?

So, if I could get an XP based boot CD to recognize by drive and get DriveImage XML installed under it, I should have no problem restoring my Vista based system?

[JonF]

So are you saying, you can backup, no problem, because you are volume locking when backing up inside Vista, but if you try to use VistaPE to restore, it might not restore properly because it's not locking properly because those files aren't included in VistaPE.

No.

I'm saying that right now there's no reliable method for making a DriveImage XML backup of an NTFS partition under VistaPE, because it will not be possible to lock the volume and nobody has figured out how to get VSS going in VistaPE. So you should make your backups in your regular booted-from-the-hard-disk environment.

AFAIK nobody's really tested restoring under VistaPE. How to do that is a really interesting question because, if you do need to restore your usual boot drive, you must do it while booted into some other system, and VistaPE is a very convenient platform for that (as you know, it's especially convenient for those with SATA drives, which are pretty durned common nowadays). But I think that there may be issues there due to lack of volume locking, and those issues may be avoidable if you preformat the drive as FAT32. I hope to test that in the near future. But right now restoring from VistaPE is untested and iffy.

If you have Vista Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise it has a facility for making a complete image-type backup. Some others and I just got the facilities for restoring such backups running under VistaPE 12 (it probably works under 11 also), and I can post it if you are interested. Perhaps you have to build from a Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise source to get that restoring facility, and restoring is untested; but IMHO it's pretty likely to work. (It also can do a system restore on the target system, and that probably works with any Vista DVD build source)

Also, last time I tried a XP based boot CD, probably BartPE, I was unable to see my SATA drive because I guess it didn't have the correct SATA drivers.

Has that situation improved any? Any suggestions?

It hasn't changed any ... but you never reported on any attempt to use the BTS Driverpacks. That's allowed me to see many a SATA drive from BartPE. Have you tried that? I can help if you are having difficulty getting it going.

So, if I could get an XP based boot CD to recognize by drive and get DriveImage XML installed under it, I should have no problem restoring my Vista based system?

Certainly should. I haven't restored a Vista system, but I've restored several XP systems.

[JonF]

OK, I just did a restoration test. Using Virtual PC 2007, in a full Vista VM I made an image of the NTFS boot drive on a second virtual hard disk. In a VistaPE VM I attempted to restore the image.

As I suspected, in the VistaPE VM DriveImage XML was unable to lock the target partition, even though there was no apparent reason why it couldn't -- it was Transactional NTFS kicking in. DriveImage offered to go ahead and try to restore anyway. I don't know if this would have been successful. I canceled the attempt.

I opened the Disk Manager that came along with the MMC script and right-clicked the target partition and formatted it as NTFS (clicking through a warning about the drive being in use and having to force a format). Still DriveImage XML was unable to lock the drive.

I then formatted the target partition again, but this time as FAT32. Success! DriveImage XML locked the partition and restored it (as an NTFS partition), and the resulting virtual disk booted into Vista just fine (although it did display the "Windows did not shut down normally" warning at the beginning of the boot).

So the news is good; you can use DriveImage XML in VistaPE to restore a partition, although for NTFS target partitions you should first format them as FAT32 (and be sure to choose quick format ... it's going to be undone when you restore). This is most conveniently done by including the MMC.



Creating images is still best done while booted into the full OS.

[Lex Luthor]

Jon,

Thanks for that testing. That's great information.

One last question. If I used a BartPE (XP) with DriveImage XML plugin and the mass storage plugins, would I be able to restore my Vista installation without going through the step to change it to FAT32 first?

DriveImage XML plugin under BartPE does support vss locking, correct?

I did try to create a BartPE CD with the DriveImage XLL and mass storage plugins last week, but I must have botched it because I couldn't see any drives at all when booted in BartPE. I'll try again when I have some more time.

[was_jaclaz]

So the news is good; you can use DriveImage XML in VistaPE to restore a partition, although for NTFS target partitions you should first format them as FAT32 (and be sure to choose quick format ... it's going to be undone when you restore). This is most conveniently done by including the MMC.

Wouldn't just changing the partition identifier in the MBR be enough?

jaclaz