eSATA booting External links Options

[ktp]

In the PC world, there is no HDD Firewire booting. But how about eSATA boot ?
I believe on some new laptops there is eSATA port built-in, so I assume eSATA attached HDD can be booted
(menu in BIOS). Is it true ? And is there any difference (for BartPE, WinPE...) to boot eSATA vs. USB 2?
Any problem like BSOD 0x7B (INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE) for example ?


I do know that PCMCIA/ExpressCard providing eSATA ports could not be used for booting.
Only built-in eSATA port could.

Note : I do not have any SATA equipment, so I am newbie on this matter.

Edit: a Google search seems to indicate that it is possible:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=159970

[mr_]

Therefore you may have to select "boot from SCSI" in your BIOS for booting from the SATA adapter card.

This sounds very strange. The sata card uses also some kind of scsi emulation to become compatible with older BIOS?

Please note that only SATA-cards with an own BIOS are capable of booting.

Ok, this is an important hint for me. You know a comparison of sata controllers? I am looking on ebay, the cards start at 10-15 € inclusive shipping. But technical informations (own BIOS or not) are rare.

[booty#1]

This sounds very strange. The sata card uses also some kind of scsi emulation to become compatible with older BIOS?

That is a misunderstanding. It is just a mechanism that is used for booting. Before SATA there were only SCSI-adapters using this mechanism, therefore in the BIOS it were called "boot from SCSI".

Regarding which controller to buy: If you don't know exactly what to buy, eBay is definitely the wrong place.
use the website of an big pc shop such as alternate.de and look whet they have in stock and select some controllers by their price. Then go to the manufacturer's site and find out if the card is bootable and the other technical details. After searching for about 4-10 controllers you will see which one fits your needs.

BTW: Don't expect too much from a SATA-PCI controller card regarding HDD speed. The PCI bus may limit the data transfer rate depending on what other PCI cards you have installed.

booty#1

[mr_]

BTW: Don't expect too much from a SATA-PCI controller card regarding HDD speed. The PCI bus may limit the data transfer rate depending on what other PCI cards you have installed.

Currently only my SoundBlaster Live.

The wiki says PCI is up to 133 MByte/s... Well, I hope to find some speed informations on the sites you recommend me.

[booty#1]

The wiki says PCI is up to 133 MByte/s... Well, I hope to find some speed informations on the sites you recommend me.

That is a theoretical value - you will never reach it. Expect 60-80MB/s max.
BTW: That the Soundblaster is your only PCI card does not necessarily mean it is the only PCI device: Most mainboards have additional on-board PCI components like a LAN port.

booty#1

[was_jaclaz]

The "old" SCSI cards, as well as the "new" SATA cards use the so-called "BIOS extensions", basically it is possible to "add" some code to BIOS, using an EPROM or EEPROM on a ISA/PCI card, (@booty, yes, well before PCI , ISA worked just fine) just as you have for Network cards.
http://home.online.no/~westerma/planet/bios/general.html
http://etherboot.sourceforge.net/doc/html/userman/x225.html

These extrensions can also be used to provide "fixes" for various issues:
http://www.fitzenreiter.de/ata/ata_eold.htm

jaclaz

[mr_]

Ok, I have my eSATA controller card now and want to share my experiences.

In XP the eSATA harddisk isn't detected, you need to install the drivers first.

Right after the normal BIOS the controller BIOS will appear and you can enter the setup. It has not many options.

Booting from eSATA works by setting the BIOS to boot from SCSI. I think if your BIOS has no option to boot from SCSI you are kinda out of look since there is not "boot from SCSI even without BIOS support bootloader yet".

The speed is higher then with USB 2.0.

I did just unplug my USB bootable USB 2.0 harddisk and wanted to boot it now from eSATA (the harddisk enclosure has both USB 2.0 and eSATA). Initial booting worked, this is a prof that BIOS calls are working and this makes it very probable that also DOS will run from this harddisk. Later in booting phase it appeared like expected a bluescreen. This was because microsoft missed to implement to start windows also in compatibility mode if there is no protected mode harddisk driver (continue to use BIOS calls).

This ugly issue could I fix with booting the eSATA harddisk as a raw disk in VMware (booting again thought USB 2.0 would have been also possible, but I didn't remember the easy way at this point). After booting the working configuration I forced windows to install the eSATA controller driver. Luckily booting this harddisk works now from either USB 2.0 or eSATA.

[BLJ]

I think there is a little difference. I have read somewhere esata supports hotplug and therefore you see the device in the windows "hardware safe remove".

Usually SATA supports Hot-Plug, too.
It's Driver / Controller dependent.

The only differences between SATA & eSATA:

eSATA definiert abgeschirmte Kabel mit bis zu zwei Metern Länge und neue Stecker/Buchsen mit folgenden Eigenschaften:

Neue, inkompatible, Stecker/Buchsengeometrie ohne die L-Form der SATA-Stecker/Buchsen, was verhindern soll, dass versehentlich Kabel für den internen Betrieb extern verwendet werden.
Stecker und Buchse sind wie die Kabel geschirmt, um elektromagnetische Störungen zu verhindern.
Die Kontakte liegen tiefer in den Stecker/Buchsen, damit die Abschirmung sicher Kontakt hat und statische Aufladung abfließen kann, bevor sich die Signalkontakte berühren.
Die Buchsen haben kleine Federn, um die mechanische Stabilität zu verbessern und versehentliches Herausziehen zu verhindern.
Stecker und Buchsen sollen mindestens 5000 Steckzyklen überstehen (SATA: min. 50).
Durch Verschärfung der elektrischen Anforderung (leichte Erhöhung des Spannungslevels beim Sender, erhöhte Empfindlichkeit des Empfängerbausteins) soll die sichere Übertragung über zwei Meter erreicht werden.

A short version in english:

-eSATA cables are shielded, SATA re not.
-The Connectors are incompatible. They're shielded, too.
-The Connecters have small springs to make the connection more stable and to prevent incidental removal.
-Connectors should last at least 500 plug-cycles, as opposed to a min of 50 for SATA.
-Cables can be up to 2 meters long (SATA: 1m). To reach this, the Voltage is slightly increased and the senitivity of the receiver is bigger, too.

-if you use the Slot-Adapters (internaly connected with a standard SATA cable, externally an eSATA Connector) you are limited to 1m of total cable length, too. e.g. if you have a 50cm cable inside you can only use up to 50cm cable from the slot connector to the harddisk.

[booty#1]

Usually SATA supports Hot-Plug, too.

Sorry, but I disagree. A large number of controller do not support hot plug. take for example the often used Intel chipsets. AFAIK all Intel Chipsets (ICH?/ICHR?) except for the latest version do not support hot plug.

booty#1

[ktp]

It is interesting that now eSATA seems to be more and more standard equipment for new laptops. Previously only Asus has few models with eSATA, now HP new laptops models equipped with eSATA port too.

The problem is that currently eSATA still needs extra power cable.

[BLJ]

Sorry, but I disagree. A large number of controller do not support hot plug. take for example the often used Intel chipsets. AFAIK all Intel Chipsets (ICH?/ICHR?) except for the latest version do not support hot plug.

booty#1

i was never a big fan of intel anyway

but now, that you say it.. i see that you're right. My ICH9R doesn't suppot it.

Even my old Nforce 3 (!) had hot-plug support, although it was partly broken...
it was never a problem to attach a new harddisk during operation, removing was sometimes a hassle.

oh, i just found this:

To enable hot plug capability for the SATA connectors controlled by the ICH9 South Bridge, you must install Windows Vista (on ICH9, hot plug is supported in Windows Vista only) and configure the SATA connectors for AHCI mode